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Post by Pallidity on Sept 3, 2014 23:59:28 GMT -6
So, I've noticed, particularly as of late, that dread pricing has a lot of disparities. Some sellers charge less than $1/dread though they've been around for ages, while others are charging nearly $30/dread and they've not been on my radar up until the last few months. Thoughts? What does everyone here charge? How do you decide your pricing?
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Pricing
Sept 4, 2014 17:40:59 GMT -6
Post by EmilyBuff on Sept 4, 2014 17:40:59 GMT -6
Cost of materials + Time spent making + Overhead costs + Shipping = Price. Right now I'm still making under minimum wage for most sets... but I'm hiking my prices slowly to accommodate. Usually for pre-mades I barely make my money back for Cost of Materials, but I'm trying to change that too!
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Pricing
Sept 4, 2014 17:44:24 GMT -6
Post by EmilyBuff on Sept 4, 2014 17:44:24 GMT -6
For instance, this set cost me $50 in materials. I'm selling for $74, $10 of which goes toward electricity, water, soap, website fees, etc. So now I've got $14 for 6 hours of work... Ick. Depressing.
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Post by EmilyBuff on Sept 4, 2014 17:57:01 GMT -6
Materials: The hair (wool, synth, human, foam, cyberlox, etc.) Shipping hair to maker Rubber bands (for those that provide them. I am now for larger sets [20+ DE]; or for attaching to falls) Fabric (I used to and am now packaging larger sets [20+ DE] in bags for storage/washing) Thread (to sew bags with) Ribbon (to close bags with; or for falls) Elastic (for falls) Decorations (beads, thread, wire, sari silk, buttons etc.) Paint/Markers (for printed dreads) Extra wool (for needle felted prints) Dye/color (for wool or human hair)
Possible Overhead Costs: Wear/tear on steamer, gloves, matte, straighteners, crochet hooks, felting needle etc. Cost of water Cost of electricity Cost of soap Cost of website Cost of listing fee Cost of paypal fees Cost of paper (printing directions/care sheets) Cost of ink (printing directions/care sheets) Business Cards, other promotional products Advertisement Post supplies (tape, box, bag, tissue, etc.) Cost of gas to get to post
Time: Time spent promoting online/in real life Time spent conversing with client Time making the hair Time mailing the package
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Post by simplypetal on Sept 4, 2014 19:53:23 GMT -6
Whew, this is such a huge topic it's hard to know where to jump in. I guess I'll start by saying that my formula is much the same as Emily's. Materials + Overhead + Time = cost. Shipping I currently count separately. That said, half the overhead isn't really getting accounted for. I stick to the basics of Etsy/Paypal fees, and estimated cost of electricity/water. If my steamer breaks down, that's completely out of pocket, as is the website, business cards, and any office supplies. I do claim these things when filing for taxes, but these costs are not being passed on to customers. Needless to say, the balance is a tricky one to maintain. When I set my prices 6 years ago, there wasn't much you could get away with. The cost of dreads had suddenly fallen from in the $400's to the $100 range or less with the surge of new sellers "competing". I think a lot of the problem has been that so many of these new sellers have been (and I mean no disrespect by this!) very young; Hobbyists in Jr. High/High School or looking for spending some money while going to Universities. Which is awesome! Crafting for all! Crafting for good! HOWEVER, I don't think there has been a very firm grasp on actual "business". ie: if you're not charging enough, your business is no longer sustainable. So if you happen to be not just a hobbyist but a full time artist, you are competing with people who don't even realize they're sailing a sinking ship, and dragging you down with it. There has been a lot of talk among some of us who have been around a while, and a handful of very talented newbs that have rightfully earned the right to weigh in through their dedication and devotion to trying to work this stuff out and even out the playing field. This isn't quite the obscure oddity that it once was. It is spanning multiple subcultures and in higher demand than ever. More than half of us are regularly closed to new orders because our queues are so long we feel uncomfortable adding to them. This is a classic signal that it is time to climb back up the ladder, and I personally would love to see this more widely recognized as a "legitimate" business. (Which prompts me to touch on the fact that I would like to see more of said businesses run a little more legitimately, but that's another conversation for another time). Now, to the touchy question: Should sellers you may have never heard of before, or that have just recently popped up be charging 3x more than say, Ls Seven or Merry's Synthetic Dreads? A lot of people are going to argue with this one, (and please do, I welcome the view from a different perspective!) but I happen to think that if we're going to band together and start turning this industry into a more sustainable one, we really shouldn't be focused on who is charging too much, but rather on who is charging too little. I know that it can be frustrating to see someone that hasn't spent the same dozens as hours as us hunched over a keyboard and building the community from the getgo charging the same or even more than us, especially when the quality is sub-par... but I think there are better things to worry about. Those people are drawing more potential customers into the scene. How many people do you know that only have dreads from one maker? If their quality isn't up to scratch then they will be sinking themselves, no need for us to go running about deciding who should do what with themselves. Encouraging someone talented to make a real go of it though, I think that is far more worthy of my time. /endnovel
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Sept 4, 2014 20:28:06 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by gravekandi on Sept 4, 2014 20:28:06 GMT -6
I charge the same, cost of materials +time. My response won't be as lengthy or as beautifully written but I believe that newbie sellers shouldn't charge as much as seasoned veterans such as LS7. But I also feel that as sellers we should all band together and try to charge more. The time and work we put into our work should show in the pay we receive.
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Post by sammiisynthetic on Sept 4, 2014 23:44:37 GMT -6
Very interesting topic indeed! Ah jeez, yeah, where to start... lol
okay, well.... I'd say a charge... Moderately. Sometimes I feel like I charge pretty high. I'm a little unsure how to think of my "skills", as, okay I started making dreads like 5 years ago.... but I did it off and on for a few. Really, this year i've been doing it consistently. And I do feel prices vary by years around.... seniority and stuff. But, not always. If you make awesome dreads in a year or less, hey, good is good. (ex. Peacock Dreams/Robin)
Anyway, I may put down my exact prices for each dread (tomorrow. too sleepy ;/) I charge by each dread atm, and, honestly, sorta just went with the prices for what felt right. I believe I charge $1 for a short SE dread, non-transitional. (*by "i believe", I do have a detailed list written down in my dread notebook... I haven't looked at it in a few days and I have derp memory lol I don't give people prices from the top of my head)
I thiiiink the most I charge for a dread, is like $9 for an extra long, crochet, DE dread.
And, to come up with a price, I go by price of ea. dread, x however many is wanted, + $0.50 ea. for transitional, + materials, and shipping. Oh, and etsy/paypal fees where they apply.
*edit - whoops didn't know my swears would be turned to "oops" LOL arggg*
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Post by monarchdreads on Sept 5, 2014 0:52:01 GMT -6
Sellers and clients need to realize that our time and skill is worth paying for, as the main bulk of clients do realize this there are those few who don't. For example, my embellished ends take me at least 2 hrs each to complete without even counting the time taken on the actual dread. Some people see the prices and think "whoa" what they don't see is the neck ache, the shoulder ache, the late nights, the sweating over imperfect lines (a lot of this!) and self loathing over thinking it's never good enough. (I did a Princess Mononoke protrait, I charged £20 for her....... It took me 10hrs and once again not including the taken working on the dread)
Anyway I digress, this is a subject that has played on my mind for some time now and I'm happy to slowly see some changes in our community when it comes to pricing. Yeah new sellers are going to come along all the time but I think forums such as this are going to play a huge part in changing the way that they see their growing skills, with the guidance of established sellers the issue of pricing will continue to change in a positive direction. The important thing to remember is that there will always be someone out there who will think that your time is not worth it but there is 10 more who think that every penny is worth it for the finished product.
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Pricing
Sept 5, 2014 4:54:48 GMT -6
Post by peacockdreams on Sept 5, 2014 4:54:48 GMT -6
I charge with the cost of materials, plus time, plus a little for all of the electricity I use. I'm considered a newbie, I believe, been at this since December/January but my quality is that of a seasoned dread maker So I charge a little less than I should to make up for that.
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Post by peacockdreams on Sept 5, 2014 5:04:43 GMT -6
But I do think that we should be telling some of the new talent to price their dreads a little higher. I do think that newbies are bringing in new people, but they may not ever want to pay more than the $80 per set that they are used to. I think what we need to do as a community is start helping out the new guys that are proving to be badass. I'm trading with two new girls and going to promote them because I see their work as something better than the usual "I'm new to this" subpar work. I think we all need to take some new guys under our wing. The more dread makers, the more potential clients, I believe.
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Post by diversityhair on Sept 5, 2014 8:24:12 GMT -6
I made a little excel calculator to help people about a month ago, i can post it here possibly if it would be useful. Its editable, so people can add or take things that relate to them. Based on my experience of having been a mobile hairdresser/extensionist and having done dreadmaking myself for years. Let me know if anyone wants it, though i dont know if i can post files here?
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Sept 6, 2014 17:59:27 GMT -6
Post by Wolfie on Sept 6, 2014 17:59:27 GMT -6
I would find the calculator very helpful
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Sept 7, 2014 4:54:16 GMT -6
Post by shedandy on Sept 7, 2014 4:54:16 GMT -6
Very insightful read. I started liking posts and realized I had to stop because I was going to "like" every one. Great to see sellers communicating on this topic.
I'm not sure what I should do with my prices, as dread-making for me is more of a hobby/passion for me at the moment although the extra cash could be handy as I am a student. I watch TV or listen to music and think while I make my dreads I prefer to take my time both for quality and anti stress/meditation purposes, so Its harder to work out a hourly wage due in part to that. I am intending on finally getting my act together and listing a bunch of stuff on etsy or store-envy in a few months or maybe earlier and I might ask you guys what your opinions are on my prices.
I guess a few conflicting factors come into play for me for example I am Australian so I am used to higher prices I am really quite a nervous person and have felt more comfortable undercharging that risking overcharging in the past. I am aware that if I do undercharge it can undercut other sellers and enforce the ideas that some customers have that dreads should be cheap regardless of quality and I don;t want to do this.
so I think I will just see what you guys think of my prices and reasons for them when I come out with them if thats ok?
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Post by EmilyBuff on Sept 8, 2014 2:48:35 GMT -6
I am Australian so I am used to higher prices I am really quite a nervous person and have felt more comfortable undercharging that risking overcharging in the past. I am aware that if I do undercharge it can undercut other sellers and enforce the ideas that some customers have that dreads should be cheap regardless of quality and I don;t want to do this. so I think I will just see what you guys think of my prices and reasons for them when I come out with them if thats ok? If your primary customers are in Australia, then I'd say your prices should reflect that. Also, if you're paying more for the synthetic hair your prices should be higher. Many of us, even very season and popular sellers, are nervous about charging more. Don't feel alone! You've hit the nail on the head with the third statement; it does undercut others. We should all charge a fair price as long as the quality is good. If you'd like too, I'm sure myself and others would be happy to help you figure out a good price for your work. We'd need to see your portfolio of work and know your materials/overhead costs to help you.
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Post by simplypetal on Sept 11, 2014 0:55:46 GMT -6
But I do think that we should be telling some of the new talent to price their dreads a little higher. I do think that newbies are bringing in new people, but they may not ever want to pay more than the $80 per set that they are used to. I think what we need to do as a community is start helping out the new guys that are proving to be badass. I'm trading with two new girls and going to promote them because I see their work as something better than the usual "I'm new to this" subpar work. I think we all need to take some new guys under our wing. The more dread makers, the more potential clients, I believe. ^ I stand by this 100%, the last line especially. It's a hard thing, the "vets" vs. "n00bs". I agree with you peacockdreams, I think we shouldn't be so quick to wave a newer maker off. I do however think you're kind of a freak of nature in how quickly and how well you settled into your skills. Most will not be so quick, or nearly as dedicated. And I think that's a big part, the dedication. Not only to the art form but to the actual business and industry of it. The majority of people that think they're ready to sell are not ready at all. I think though, rather than discouraging them, we should be better preparing them for a set of higher standards to live up to. does that make sense?! shedandy, Emily is completely right. Who your target market is and what you have to spend on supplies should be the first things to consider, followed by the cost of living where you are. Make it work for you, in your local market. If international buyers really love your work, they won't be bothered by spending the extra. Make sure you work towards building the foundations of a sustainable business. This takes time, thought, several tearful, overwhelmed panic attacks, and some trial and error. We're here for you if you need us! <3
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